Q&A: COP30 Europe envoy on green backlash and taxing tech

BRUSSELS - Laurence Tubiana, a key architect of the 2015 Paris accord to curb global warming and special envoy to Europe for the COP30 talks, says host Brazil must build consensus, even with countries, like the U.S., who are "playing for the other side".

Tubiana, who heads the European Climate Foundation, was appointed special envoy to Europe for COP30, which will take place in the Brazilian city of Belém in November.

She is one of 30 such envoys appointed by Brazil to help build engagement across strategic regions and sectors ahead of COP30. They include New Zealand's former prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, and Brazilian world record-holding big wave surfer Maya Gabeira.

Tubiana hopes Brazil can revive some of the Paris spirit, getting nations to turn their red lines green and commit to implementing the 2015 deal to limit warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels.

She spoke to Context about her expectations.    

As a key architect of the Paris Agreement, what has changed since 2015 and how can COP30 capture some of the spirit of Paris?

When I look back at negotiations, and in particular the last three COPs, you see tensions have risen around the fossil fuel sector's growing influence and talks are becoming more polarised.

The way the fossil fuel sector is playing a central role now is a new factor, but at the same time it's proof of concept. They feel in danger.

For the Brazilian presidency there is a big challenge to reinstate this less combative and more cooperative spirit, especially when some countries, and the U.S. is a good example, are playing for the other side.

As the U.S. pulls back and the European Union waters down elements of the Green Deal, is it more difficult to be hopeful of progress at COP30? 

The U.S. has never been a very stable partner in climate discussions. But the battle in the EU is crucial, and I don't think the battle is lost.

The Paris Agreement, the U.S. aside, hasn't really been challenged and sticking to the framework is the best we can have for the moment. The big thing now is enforcement and implementation.

I'm not optimistic or pessimistic, it's a moment of very strong battles. The problem is delaying taking action. It's a race against time and that battle we are losing.

When it comes to the energy transition, how can European governments avoid public anger and protests over climate policies?

This idea that the people are against the environment, it's a totally fabricated message. In this post-truth moment, values can be instrumentalised - like climate policies are bad because they are rich-people policies. You create this value system that distorts reality. 

We need to prioritise the argument about the unfairness of climate change's impact. In the suburbs of Paris people are suffering as they cannot afford cooling systems during heatwaves. Now there are movements in the suburbs of Paris, Lyon and Strasbourg saying that they are paying the price of climate change so they must stand up for climate policies.    

You have proposed imposing taxes on AI and cryptocurrencies to mitigate the effect of this energy-hungry tech, but how realistic is this?

It's never realistic to impose a new tax. Crypto is a very new world and I hope it will use less energy and be more efficient in future. But currently the digital economy's demand on the energy sector is very big and growing very fast. 

So I think it's a good idea to open the discussion (on tax) for crypto as it's a topic the government has to regulate for many reasons. And then AI would be another step.

Maybe it seems unrealistic now, but many good things that seemed unrealistic have happened. 

(Reporting by Joanna Gill; Editing by Jon Hemming.)